Dutch opposition party will submit new vote to request Dutch government to sent letter to UN
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According Dutch radiostation BNR , Dutch political party CDA will submit a new vote requestig Dutch government to sent a letter to United Nations requesting Russia and Ukraine to handover primary radar recordings of MH17.
Pieter Omtzigt of CDA requested the government to sent letters of complaint to both ICAO and UN in November. However the Dutch government declined to do so. The response was that DSB stated their conclusion on the cause of the disaster will not change because of availability of the radar images. Also as radar systems were switched off, such a letter will not recover any images.
Pieter Omtzigt states it is suspicious and a big coincidence that at time of war radar is switched off and in maintenance.
Evidence based on just aircraft wreckage alone will be insufficient at a court case. “Primary radar will show possible missile or military jets and provides additional evidence” according Omtzigt.
He will submit a new vote in January 2016 according to BNR which interviewed him at December 24.
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A strange thing, it looks like my posts are being deliberately deleted from here each time just minutes after they had already appeared here.
And I only wanted to ask if there are any elections upcoming in the Netherlands so that the Dutch opposition has to make that much noise, even when unsubstantiated and unrealistic.
How can you imagine the UN requesting Russia and Ukraine to provide things they just DO NOT HAVE?
Right, it may be “suspicious and a big coincidence that at time of war radar is switched off and in maintenance” in Ukraine (but don’t forget the secondary radars were still on and functioning).
However, it’s much more suspicious and a much larger coincidence that at the time of a war going on nearby, all the Russian radar data critically relevant to the crash were just being deleted, thus blatantly breaking universally valid and clearly stated ICAO rules that demand keeping such data!
And it’s also suspicious and a big coincidence that the Dutch opposition continues to close their eyes on what Russia did and continues to scold Ukraine, in an obvious case of double standards and in a way Putin would be proud of, to draw the attention away from the Kremlin’s deeds.
And, again, I think it is suspicious because the Russian radars might have detected exactly the ‘Buk’ missile launch from the area occupied by the combined Russian and separatist forces which would have immediately destroyed all the Kremlin-produced “fairy tales.” Or was it just a big coincidence?
Suppose that it is true that the launch was made by pro-Russian rebels by a BUK missile that then traveled back to Russia, and that both US and Russian satellites would make that very clear. How come then that the movements of the alleged pro-Russian BUK convoy haven’t been clarified by sources better than possibly doctored photos (via Paris Match etc)? If the US satellites could see the convoy so clearly, they should have also been able to track its movements. Perhaps the movements were not what they expected or hoped for?
So, I have to make a fourth try to post my message that is constantly blocked.
You seem to think the US have either everything or nothing. However, the US don’t have anything of the kind you might want: no satellite photos or videos showing the movement of the ‘Buk’ convoy or the moment of the missile launch, nothing like “a flash, a roar, a smoke plume after the missile and another flash and a bang when it hit the plane.”
The US satellites do not make constant photo reviews or videos of each and every square mile of the Earth surface, regardless of the weather, clouds or the darkness of the night. They have nothing to show the eager public, of the kind of the Russian fakes with three-mile-long Ukie fighters being pictured exactly when shooting at a Boeing (of a different make than MH17).
What they do have is a sequence of digital data which, after being deciphered by the specialists, can tell them of a specific digital “signatures” of a ‘Buk’ radar being deployed, or a ‘Buk’ missile being shot, at a place having specific coordinates. However, these data tell anything only to the specialists, not to the public.
And the specialists from Russia, a country that is now a direct military adversary of the US, would know rather much about the US satellite capabilities if they were given such data.
So, it’s very probable that the US have just put the interests of their national security higher than the need to prosecute the Russian perpetrator.
Don’t forget the US were among the first to produce a schematic draft of the ‘Buk’ launch which, when looked at attentively, was rather precise to schematically put the launch site south of Snizhne — exactly at the area where the launch site was later calculated from open source data.
And don’t forget that DSB have acknowledged they had seen some classified information, including “from intelligence services of other countries,” and stated that DSB findings agreed with this classified information.
DSB head Tjibbe Joustra spoke more directly outside the official presentation that he and several more DSB members had been shown the US information; according to him, the information corroborated the fact that the missile had been shot from within the separatist-controlled territory. However, due to the secrecy DSB was not allowed to use this information in their report and had to officially speak about the 320 sq km launch zone while they in fact were told the exact point in secret.
Poor boy. I pity you so much.
But let’s give you something in regards your assumptions:
http://m.space.com/20275-missile-defense-satellite-launching-tuesday.html
“The windshield wiper-type scanner gives a wide view of the planet below and the starer can be tasked to observe a very specific region for emerging threats and fast-moving targets.”
Starer is an IR imager with telescopic lens. So you claims of “sequence of data”, that moron John Kerry is allegedly interpreted, are incorrect.
So the capability of the detection system is quite well known and could be easily presented. From launch to the explosion as Kerry claimed. Heat signatures of airliner engine would be visible to starer as well, so we could even see the relative approach of two.
Thank you for showing your intellectual level so marvelously 🙂
And be careful, you may just burst with anger.
However, it looks like you still believe SBIRS satellites make “Star War”-like video movies which ‘Zvezda’ TV channel can air in Russia. No. You are wrong.
Such satellites supply sets of digital data that have to be analyzed and deciphered. That’s how they produce their view of the planet below.
Some critical data are rather easy to interpret, like the information on missile launches or the work of ‘Buk’ radars. But there is nothing to “put on the table” spectacularly, without the interpretation. Especially when most specifications of defense satellites are classified, and the original data, either raw or processed, would be a big gift to an adversary.
And it’s not the single satellite that works for those purposes.
“NGA analysts in Huntsville provide some very valuable tradecraft based-expertise, with an average of 25-years of GEOINT-based knowledge and insight into analyzing missile testing and launch events. It’s expertise like that that’s essential when NGA needs to assess things like responsibility for the SA-11 that shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine. It takes multiple forms of GEOINT, along with other sources, to really understand the whole picture.”
https://www.nga.mil/MediaRoom/SpeechesRemarks/Pages/18th-Annual-Space-and-Missile-Defense-Symposium.aspx
Isn’t it a bit weird that a system designed for early detection of missile launches requires hours of analyse to get some usefull data?
There is a photo released by the USAF which shows a trajectory of a rocket. The capabilities of SBIRS are enhanced in a very rapid pace.
More on SBIRS in a future blog.
No Prostak,
I don’t need to be angry at you. You have a condition of Logic deficiency, as proven so often, so I just pity you.
How can you claim in the post that technology is so secret and at the same time profess on how the data is collected? Very funny.
You link was long and useless. The quote is talking about how to use multiple data, obviously implying social media, to analyse the whole picture. Not about how the missile was detected. But the fact that you quoted it just shows how little you know about the topic.
While my link specifically talks about IR imager with telescopic optics for observing the missile launch and flight path. The technology is expensive but not very secret. And I have a luxury to work with it. And the system was just launched in 2013, precisely to be ready for this event.
And again you forget the statement by John Kerry. What he describes is not a set of data, his IQ is obviously incapable of mathematical analysis, but the consecutive imagery of missile launch, flight and explosion.
So no. USA has the actual movie for Zvezda TV channel. And the content of the movie is not what they want, especially as it should be able to detect IR signature from MH17 engines and thus relative trajectory can be assessed.
Antidyatel, and the US have published their assessment of the ‘Buk’ missile trajectory a couple of days after the incident, and it showed the launch site, schematically, exactly South of Snizhne.
As for Kerry, you might be finally correct. Obviously, the politician should not be ultimately capable of mathematical analysis, so he talked about the same launch site scheme prepared for him and us by the specialists — he would not be able to understand what was the raw data from the satellites.
Are you still waiting for the movie? Well, be waiting. Or ask the Russian General Staff, they like doing spectacular movies (or steeling the Norwegian movies).
Prosto Tak,
Amazing how you constantly manage to defeat logic. So USA is using super duper Technology to track missiles but you are pretty sure that it is a set of numbers that some smarty has to analyse in order to get the true trajectory. If it such a secret how do you know that this is the case?
More strikingly, USA has launched a set of satelites with high resolution IR imaging capability with a purpose of direct life imaging of missile launches and trajectory estimation, but according to you, they still first convert it into raw secret data that later has to be specially traced with green marker on a powerpoint slide, for John Kerry to understand. Brilliant thinking. No wonder Ukraine went in opposite direction from the goal of becoming France when they broke the Soviet Union.
To: admin // January 6, 2016 at 8:44 pm //
Admin, sorry, I was imprecise in my words. I did not mean it needs to be deciphered for hours. What I meant was the results of what the satellite does are not a spectacular 3D movie in Dolby surround — it’s a data string intelligible for a specialist at once but it needs to be interpreted for a non-specialist. There is nothing to show to people in the street, like Russia did with their spectacularly debunked fakes.
“it’s a data string intelligible for a specialist at once but it needs to be interpreted for a non-specialist. ”
Did you ever work with IR imagery? How do you know if it works the way you describe if it is a secret?
Who was talking about 3D? Yes you will need information from at least two IR cameras to deduce the 3D trajectory based on triangulation but the base information are 2D images that can be shown, and they were shown already by USAF during North Korean missile launch. Why are you so desperately trying to argue something that you have no clue about? It is really sounding silly
Well, you are even more desperately trying to argue on Ukraine about which you have only Kremlin-implanted “clues.” It’s much more silly.
Priceless. You compare mythology to science and find them equivalent. No wonder colour revolutions are so easy and cheap to incite. You guys are very eager to believe in fairy tales.
It’s a strange thing but I’m not able to post this message for the second or the third day already.
Pianoman, you seem to think the US have either everything or nothing. However, the US don’t have anything of the kind you might want: no satellite photos or videos showing the movement of the ‘Buk’ convoy or the moment of the missile launch, nothing like “a flash, a roar, a smoke plume after the missile and another flash and a bang when it hit the plane.”
The US satellites do not make constant photo reviews or videos of each and every square mile of the Earth surface, regardless of the weather, clouds or the darkness of the night. They have nothing to show the eager public, of the kind of the Russian fakes with three-mile-long Ukie fighters being pictured exactly when shooting at a Boeing (of a different make than MH17).
What they do have is a sequence of digital data which, after being deciphered by the specialists, can tell them of a specific digital “signatures” of a ‘Buk’ radar being deployed, or a ‘Buk’ missile being shot, at a place having specific coordinates. However, these data tell anything only to the specialists, not to the public.
And the specialists from Russia, a country that is now a direct military adversary of the US, would know rather much about the US satellite capabilities if they were given such data.
So, it’s very probable that the US have just put the interests of their national security higher than the need to prosecute the Russian perpetrator.
Don’t forget the US were among the first to produce a schematic draft of the ‘Buk’ launch which, when looked at attentively, was rather precise to schematically put the launch site south of Snizhne — exactly at the area where the launch site was later calculated from open source data.
And don’t forget that DSB have acknowledged they had seen some classified information, including “from intelligence services of other countries,” and stated that DSB findings agreed with this classified information.
DSB head Tjibbe Joustra spoke more directly outside the official presentation that he and several more DSB members had been shown the US information; according to him, the information corroborated the fact that the missile had been shot from within the separatist-controlled territory. However, due to the secrecy DSB was not allowed to use this information in their report and had to officially speak about the 320 sq km launch zone while they in fact were told the exact point in secret.
Admin,
You might want to put a post on what USA satelites potentially see during the even. The links from me and from Prosto Tak can be a start ( eventhough his link is not talking about satellite data specifically but about all the data available for intelligence community, including bogus social media analysis).
I’m sure others cam also contribute in analysis of what USA actually has and why they are not showing it. Assuming that they are the primary accusers, ignoring thugs currently in charge of Kiev, it is interesting to assess what they they could potentially have
Specially for Prosto Tak https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Infrared_satellite_imagery_depicts_a_missile_launch_through_the_clouds.jpg
This is how IR imagers from satelites can track missile launch. Due to high resolution the frame rates of imagers are limited to several Hz which is still morethan enough to compile a complete video of trajectory progression.
This blog is discussing IR detection capabilities of satelites during MH17 event. With giving high probability that it was done by rebels
http://sattrackcam.blogspot.nl/2014/07/sbirs-sigint-and-mh17-tragedy.html?m=1
That was in July 2014
By 2015 the author bags USA TO RELEASE THE IMAGERY AND TO STOP the suffering of passenger relative through non-closure
http://sattrackcam.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/flight-mh17-satellite-data-and.html?m=1
Admin, I really think that this aspect of MH17 tragedy should be covered on your website, which already provides a very diverse and comprehensive information about the event. Sorry for giving you more work. 😉 but maybe there can be others that can contribute more to this information than I managed to find and analyse.
I will publish a new blog on SBIR capabilities soon.
Today i released a blog on SBIRS https://whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/sbirs-was-john-kerry-right-and-did-the-us-see-the-buk-missile-launch-and-what-else-did-they-see/