Rough timelime of last minutes of MH17
by 
This post provides some *possible* times of the events around the time MH17 was shot down.
This post is also to encourage others to discuss the timeline. Please place your comments.
| Local time | event | Source/description |
| 13:30 | BUK was last seen driving southwards leaving Snizhne | |
| 13:40 | BUK reaches launch spot | |
| 16:18:00 | ADS-B of MH17 transmits unreliable data | Avherald http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d |
| 16:18:00 +/- | Start telephone call between Naimanets and Bezler mentioning big bird | |
| 16:18:18 | Telephone call with separatists ended | |
| 16:18:58 | Radar of BUK switched on | Assuming radar is hot and was switched off |
| 16:19:01-05 | Command to attack target by commander of BUK | |
| 16:19:08 | Missile lock on target | time between lock and missile launch 25 sec |
| 16:19:33 | Launch of missile | Based on last FDR recoding minus flight time |
| 16:19:34 +/- | Missile reaches speed of sound. Sonic boom? | |
| 16:20:03 | Last FDR recording | DSB report |
| 16:20:xx | sound of BUK explosion reaches Torez | |
| 16:20:xx +/- | Pavel Aleynikov hears first explosion from his home in Torez | Interview with Aleynikov http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/ooggetuige-mh17-mijn-doel-rechtvaardigheid |
| 16:20:15 +/- | Pavel Aleynikov hears second explosion much more powerfull than 1st. Windows shake | Interview with Aleynikov http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/ooggetuige-mh17-mijn-doel-rechtvaardigheid |
| 16:20:45 +/- | Pavel Aleynikov makes his first photo from balcony according interview | Interview with Aleynikov http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/ooggetuige-mh17-mijn-doel-rechtvaardigheid |
| 13:21:03 – 13:21:33 +/- | Middle part and tail hits ground | Final report DSB |
| 13:22:05 +/- | Last radar contact | Rostov radar according DSB report |
| 13:22:00 – 13:23:00 | People on social media report large bangs |
See this screenshot from vKontakte (source). More reports of crash https://vk.com/wall235893372_15581 https://vk.com/wall235893372_15582 https://vk.com/wall235893372_15583 https://vk.com/wall235893372_15584 https://vk.com/wall235893372_15585
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| 16:22:40 | Possible BUK smoketrail photo made by Pavel Aleynikov taken from balcony | EXIF data shows 16:25:48 (clock of camera incorrect?). Time based on shadows of his photo. |
| 16:24:48 | Still spots on Rostov radar (falling debris??) | |
| 16:30:06 | First photo of black smoke taken by Pavel Aleynikov from roof of apartment | DSC_9297 |
This document has an . It is in Russian language.
by
A few questions:
Is the timing of the Naimanets/Bezler phone call verified in any way? Just because SBU claims the phone call was made at 16:18 does not prove it. Why was that intercepted call posted a week after the downing, in contrast to the other calls, which possibly were edited and actually referred to an event a few days prior?
“ADS-B of MH17 transmits unreliable data” – This is very interesting, and I haven’t seen mentions of this much at all. We are told from the preliminary report that everything seemed as usual up until the hit of MH17. The article referred to does not mention an awful lot about this ‘unreliable data’ – are there more references to this? Russian MoD claimed that MH17 deviated from its intended path in the minutes prior to the shootdown, if I remember correctly.
“Russian MoD claimed that MH17 deviated from its intended path in the minutes prior to the shootdown”
So they said.
But we see from radar that it’s not true.
I think this is 99% valid info:
https://whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/moscow-lies-about-mh17-route/
(((IIRC, there is small mismatch with radar times vs FDR record times vs transponder info received.
And the same with the last FDR point vs what is seen on radar&debris (+-kilometers).
But at least, according to radar, which is the most accurate and real time, the MH17 seemed to be on correct flight path untill the last 5 seconds before hit.)))
Moi Sotilaspassi, I basically agree with what you write, but was still curious to understand why the ADS-B started transmitting unreliable data minutes prior to the shootdown. I suppose that a timing mismatch could be the explanation.
I asked the owner of avherald.com several times about this transponder data. I did not get an answer. I know this guy is very very serious and very reliable. He has a good reason to state that transponder data became unreliable.
“why the ADS-B started transmitting unreliable data”
One suggestion is jamming of/interference with/spoofing of the transmission by a military electronics warfare operation.
The countries capable of such a military operation are obviously quite limited.
http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/541391-atc-issues-after-nato-electronic-warfare-training.html
It could be spoofing. However the secondary radar data of Rostov keeps on showing flightnumber and other data sourced from the transponder. The same applies to Flightradar 24.
In German airspace a couple of months ago civil aircraft disappeared from radar. Likely because of military activities.
ADS-B can easily be spoofed by simple tools. Do some Google on ATC hacking.
Another link on documents concerning ATC jamming from 7/14/14.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4b7_1406202468
There are no other references to this statement at avherald. Mind avherald is a very much respected website on aviation incidents. And has individual sources which can indicate something was wrong with transponder.
What I’m still lacking a proper response to is the issue of the Naimanets/Bezler phone call. Please note that The phone call is extremely brief and there is no mention of their locations. The way it stands, they could be talking about any plane, on any day during the conflict. If SBU went out with other phone calls on the day of the downing (calls that show signs of editing, according to various sources), why did it take them a week to come up with this call?
16:25 Twitter @other331 (writing in Torez) – Что то нихуёво бахнуло со стороны Шахтерска / something loud as hell just banged from the direction of Shaktersk
Another two Shakhtarsk testimonies right after the crash.
We can cook up a Ukr. BUK trail Bcat style if we want, but some people say it was absolutely impossible for a Ukie BUK to permeate the southern frontline. It is even denied the UAF had BUKs in shooting range!
> 16:25
My browser says 6:25 a.m.
Is it a timezone issue (I am at ~GMT+3)
Times shown in Twitter messages are displayed in the timezone you defined in your Twitter profile. So depending on your setting the time differences.
Default Twitter timezone is Pacific Standard Time, so +10 hours to Ukraine. 6:25 am PST = 16:25 Kiev Time.
Makes sense. Thanks. As I have no twitter account it should have used the default timezone.
Reading the social media of the locals (e.g. Snizhne vk.com group:https://vk.com/wall235893372?offset=47980) for the time around the accident is very enlightening. Out of all things surrounding the catastrophe, I am only sure of two things:
1) Ukrainian military jets were flying that day. In fact, it was one of the busiest days for them.
2) The explosion position was exactly where AA has found it to be: ~1.5 metres from the window.
About the rest – not sure.
Eugene:
That is an incredibly interesting link.
Admin:
Please note this posting:
https://vk.com/wall235893372_14498?reply=14508
Dmitry Derkachev
Saw how the plane was shot down live on 2nd Mine.
Jul 16, 2014 at 8:39 am
Dmitry Derkachev
Yes 20 minutes ago they fired in the direction of Marynivka and then I saw the explosion and the terrible whistling of the wrecked engines
16 Jul 2014|
This is fascinating because Russia issued its NOTAM that afternoon with the justification regarding “The facts of firing from Ukraine in the direction of the Russian Federation”.
Now we have an eyewitness.
Andrew, I don’t get. Is it a witness from 17 July shooting down related to Boeing, or is it about bombing of Snizhne on 16 July, the one where Russian Mig was blamed by Ukrs
@ Antidyate
Seems like witness of 16Jul. Not related to MH17.
>Pavel Aleynikov hears first explosion from his home in Torez
His balcony was towards SE, so it could have been 1) launch blast (happened about ~30s earlier in 10km distance) (possible to hear if window was open?) or it could have been 2) BUK explosion (at 15km distance, high in the sky) (possible to hear via air vent?) or 3) sonic blast or 4) something not related to MH17.
>EXIF data shows 16:25:48 (clock of camera incorrect?).
SBU incompetent fingerprints destroy good/fake evidence?
> Time based on shadows of his photo.
How accurate can that be? Tens of seconds? Minute?
13:22:05 Out of radar eg at 2km, on ground 13:22:40 or sooner, loud sound to Pavel 13:23:10 ???
btw. was Pavel sober at 17 Jul 2014?
at Eugene:
>Ukrainian military jets were flying that day.
16Jul, yes. 17Jul, not sure.
I have not seen any facts about UA military flights of 17Jul.
But what I see on radar, there was no UA military jets above eastern ukraine when MH17 blew to pieces.
>The explosion position was exactly where AA has found it to be: ~1.5 metres from the window.
Relevance?
AA lied about almost everything, except perhaps about missile being a BUK M1 (but I would not trust them on that matter either).
IMO: MH17 damage looks impossible from where AA says the missile came (proximity fuse would work too soon vs damage, does not explain BUK shrapnel flying from left to right vs MH17 cockpit, etc,etc,etc…).
“I have not seen any facts about UA military flights of 17Jul.”
What would you say regarding all of the eyewitnesses that saw military jets? Most of them spoke of two jets in the sky on that day.
“But what I see on radar, there was no UA military jets above eastern ukraine when MH17 blew to pieces.”
What exactly does a typical radar for civilian planes actually see? I mean, IF it actually takes note of various military jets (AN-26 supposedly at high altitudes, to SU-25 at lower altitudes) then that would cause some confusion to air traffic controllers who are supposed to only monitor civilian flights. My guess is that such radar won’t tell us much about the situation. Fact remains that a lot of locals saw military jets.
>>“I have not seen any facts about UA military flights of 17Jul.”
>What would you say regarding all of the eyewitnesses that saw military jets? Most of them spoke of two jets in the sky on that day.
So far all I have read did not match the weather and each other. I have not read any credible story about SU25 operating below radar range when MH17 was downed.
>>“But what I see on radar, there was no UA military jets above eastern ukraine when MH17 blew to pieces.”
>What exactly does a typical radar for civilian planes actually see?
Primary radar sees everything larger than a missile. That’s why they exist.
>I mean, IF it actually takes note of various military jets (AN-26 supposedly at high altitudes, to SU-25 at lower altitudes)
Then how do you explain the same radar saw a helicopter and MH17 debris on the same video?
>then that would cause some confusion to air traffic controllers who are supposed to only monitor civilian flights.
The idea of primary radar is to see all traffic to help to avoid accidents.
>Fact remains that a lot of locals saw military jets.
Fact is many of them lied because their story does not match at all. Most credible are eyewitnesses recorded 17Jul. From 18Jul forward they were told to lie.
There is small change that people thought the cockpit was another plane as some asked where is the downed SU25. I have not seen evidence of SU25 in gound or in air 17Jul.
„13:22:05 +/- Last radar contact Rostov radar according DSB report“
Rostov radar was only connected via phone with Dnipro radar. Rostov radar never had a contact with MH17 ! Look at the DSB transcript.
Pavel Aleynikov took the photos AFTER MH17 hit the ground, because that could be the only very loud explosion he could have heard. And that was what he himself told.
„16:24:48 Still spots on Rostov radar (falling debris)“
I think we should trust Rostov radar on that. They captured everything that was above 5000m. To reach the ground are another 5000m for the wreckage.
To make an exact timeline, we need to know at what time the wreckage hit the ground.
Nobody asked the people who made the videos if the have a timecode on their videos. Especially that one that captured the explosion of the main part of MH17.
>Pavel Aleynikov … And that was what he himself told.
I’ve understood it in the same way.
>„16:24:48 Still spots on Rostov radar (falling debris)“
>I think we should trust Rostov radar on that.
I’m not sure if I have seen radar video that shows when MH17 debris drop out of radar view. Is there such version?
>They captured everything that was above 5000m.
We can not “trust” RU MOD on that “5000m”. All other “evidence” show that the radar captured everything above 1500m or so.
>To make an exact timeline, we need to know at what time the wreckage hit the ground.
Anyone got info about seismic records of the time?
>Nobody asked the people who made the videos if the have a timecode on their videos. Especially that one that captured the explosion of the main part of MH17.
+1
So far I have not seen timing of that video vs the rest.
sotilspassi:
“We can not “trust” RU MOD on that “5000m”. All other “evidence” show that the radar captured everything above 1500m or so.”
Lets be more precise. The radar is *capable* of capturing everything above 1500 m or so, but we cannot be sure there is not a mode of operation that simply does not display detected elements below a certain altitude as not relevant to civilian ATC tasks.
>Lets be more precise…. but we cannot be sure there is not a mode of operation that simply does not display detected elements below a certain altitude as not relevant to civilian ATC tasks.
I agree on that.
But because the radar caught a helicopter flying on the border, I’m pretty sure the radar sees far below 5km. DSB should release info where the minimum visibility was set. (just doubt RU ever gave any real data to them as so far they lied 100%)
My post “sotilaspassi // September 10, 2015 at 8:39 am //”
was meant at the end of thread.
I think we do not have good description of how the plane came down. -Was it spinning? (most likely)
-Fast spin or slower spiral?
-in what kind of angle the dive happened (overall looks steeper than 45 degrees)
-pprune.org I read that the right side engine most likely continued at cruise power untill ground
-nosedive is unlikely when front wings are intact but cockpit is missing, there is too much lift for plane body to nosedive to ground
Relating to that, I’d say it is perhaps surprising even, that there is no video material available that shows the crash from an earlier moment. There are videos for quite a number of shoot-downs in the days prior. Yes, it is true that in those cases planes were flying at a lower altitude and were perhaps seen as an obvious ‘threat’ to keep an eye on, while a passenger jet tumbling down is a quite different story. Still, there must’ve been enough noise in the surroundings as the plane came down and it must’ve been clearly visible during the last couple of thousand meters or so of the fall. I wonder if there’s more material out there that hasn’t yet been released.
I have imagined myself on the area.
Near BUK launch site the launch most likely is over when the sound of it is heard. So I would not have chance to take photo.
I would observe the missile trail to clouds and continue watching and listening what happens next. I would not photo the launch smoke I would be interested in what will happen in sky.
Later I hear warhead explosion but I see nothing due to clouds. I do not take photos of clouds.
Suddenly Boeing777 main body comes visible at 3000m height, coming to ground at 200…400kmh. Do I try to get my cell phone to take a photo or do I just watch? I watch because I know it’s over before I get my Android unlocked.
Later I take photo of the crash and do not remember to photo the launch smoke.
to sotilaspassi:
> 16Jul, yes. 17Jul, not sure.
If they suddenly stopped from flying on 17th after busy air warfare on previous days there should be a reason, shouldn’t it? It’s not impossible, but not too likely.
> I have not seen any facts about UA military flights of 17Jul.
It looks like you are not familiar with numerous wittiness reports. The community on mh17.webtalk.ru based on the witness reports even roughly reconstructed the paths of the Ukrainian military jets at the time around the event. On the other hand, the official investigation have been carefully avoiding talking to witnesses. Oh, no.
> Relevance?
Not very relevant, true. I just wanted to complete my point.
> AA lied about almost everything, except perhaps about missile being a BUK M1 (but I would not trust them on that matter either).
IMO: MH17 damage looks impossible from where AA says the missile came (proximity fuse would work too soon vs damage, does not explain BUK shrapnel flying from left to right vs MH17 cockpit, etc,etc,etc…).
I did my own track analysis well prior to AA and came up with the same point. That conclusion was so solid no one was ever able to mount any serious attack on it. Then AA simply confirmed. If you do you own you’ll see that all the scratch lines meet only in small region, and the explosion cannot be anywhere else.
AA did have around a dozen of blunders in their report, but there was a lot of substance in it too. Even the scalpel thing was independently (and quite interestingly) confirmed (on mh17.webtalk.ru there is a lengthy discussion, but nowhere else, AFAIK). Their biggest lie was stating that the early version of the BUK missile is not service in Russia. But even that can be looked as true in a very narrow sense: the acting army would not use them apart from in training or at parades.
>If they suddenly stopped from flying on 17th after busy air warfare on previous days there should be a reason, shouldn’t it?
OK, now I see your point. (IMHO “rebels” were downing a lot of planes, from outsider it would seem they downed every plane. Pathetic UAF was running out flight capable planes fast?)
>AA and came up with the same point.
Yes the point is right, everyone doing study will see it. Just not possible from south with a BUK, unless it malfunctioned.
to sotilaspassi:
> OK, now I see your point. (IMHO “rebels” were downing a lot of planes, from outsider it would seem they downed every plane. Pathetic UAF was running out flight capable planes fast?)
I did not have specific points in mind. Ukraine could suddenly stop flying for many reasons (e.g. did not want to spoil the false flag provocation, weather conditions, etc.). It was just not too likely.
> It seems they do a lot of training or parades beside UA SE borders?
It’s within their borders so purely Russia’s matter. If you think this is wrong, than what do you think about amount training the US is doing *outside* of their borders?
I also want to remind you that the people of the East are fighting for independence from Ukraine, which under the pressure of the US and a little help of Nazi ideology was turned into just another puppet state.
I remind you that people of the East had a referendum, which showed a large majority in favor of independence. And, before you question the vote count, I can tell that if you know any local peculiarities, you’d know that the results did not have to be rigged – people there genuinely don’t want to live together with Ukraine.
I remind you that according to the arguably the most important international document, the United Nations Charter, the UN International Court made the following stalemates:
*“No general prohibition may be inferred from the practice of the Security Council with
regard to declarations of independence,”* and *“General international law contains no
prohibition on declarations of independence.”*
The world however if full of bigots who think that they know better than the people of the Ukraine East who they should live with, just as many as people who know better than the Crimeans where the Crimea should belong.
The attitude of Ukraine towards the East reminds me a husband beating his wife who decided to leave him.
>..who know better than the Crimeans where the Crimea should belong.
Why they did not vote? Only 17% of the Crimea population voted. I’m ashamed that EU does nothing when RU capture parts of european countries.
> Why they did not vote?
I am sorry to tell you but this is simply not true.
The turnout was overwhelming. You can verify this yourself by going there and asking people. Though on crossing the border you’ll desire to ask how people voted will likely disappear as it will become self apparent.
Here is a Forbes’ later poll. You would not call Forbes Kremlin trolls, would you?
”
When asked “Do you endorse Russia’s annexation of Crimea?”, a total of 82% of the respondents answered “yes, definitely,”
”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/
Please stop the discussion on Crimea. This is offtopic.
>the acting army would not use them apart from in training or at parades.
It seems they do a lot of training or parades beside UA SE borders?
There also is material from RU stating that RU is in the process of moving from M1 to M2 currently.
(Anyway, if someone would like to not get caught in arming illegal insurgents, they would give the insurgents old weapons.)
Has anyone found info if the moment when MH17 hit ground was recorded by some seismic recording station?
If there was any recording, this seems a likely nearby organization to contact.
They may be able to give you some numbers through email, I do not know.
http://www.avia.org.ua/en/information-about-company
Fare thee well